Entertainment=Ministry…Worship=Relationship

I agreed this week on a lot of what Carson said this week about worship.  I loved how he defined worship as being a lifestyle and how edification was is basically a branch off of corporate worship.  He talked a lot about how we have confined corporate worship to take place only on Sundays when were at church but worship is a lifestyle.  This was interesting, because lately we have been discussing a lot in class about how worship is involved in everything we do.  One thing that Carson said that I agreed on him with was “Corporate worship has taken the form of something done for an audience as opposed to something done by a congregation.” (p.148). this goes back to worship or church all together as being mere entertainment. The church is always trying way to be safe through worship. Actually when you think about it church is the last place where we need to paranoid about being safe. We are called to be set apart but I believe because we are so focused on be safe and not offending people church has become boring all together and that’s why were not attractive to the un church. (Just my opinion).  (Back to entertainment.) Carson stated in one of the pages we read that the church has been focused on entertainment to bring in the un church. I know that as our human nature we all liked to be entertained and I don’t think there is anything wrong with that, but my solution for that is you can use your gifts in church to draw the congregation to God, which in the world could be considered as entertainment but to the church is used as an effective ministry tool. My question is do you agree with that? So basically entertainment and being creative in the church to draw the un church in isn’t wrong as long as you don’t loose focus on the purpose which is God….this also falls under the line as true worship.

ALSO I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION.

Carson said, “The notion that you can come to church on Sunday and bend your knee in worship when in fact you have not done so during the week is a delusion. Such “worship is a spiritual impossibility” p (159). I TOTALLY AGREE! This being so does the intense of our worship…when we are whole heartedly worshiping could that be a reflection of the relationship we have with the Lord?

NO SACRED TIMES OR SPACES

“WHAT!?!?!” That was my brain’s initial reaction to Hughes’ statement, “There are no longer any sacred times or sacred spaces.” I stopped reading to ponder over that because a few sentences before that he said “…there is no longer sacrifice, priesthood, or temple because all have been fulfilled in Christ.” I was like “What does that even mean? Just because Christ fulfilled a prophecy doesn’t mean you have to stop doing something?” But, after a few seconds of thought I realized what Hughes (and the book of Hebrews) was saying: Christ didn’t just fulfill a prophecy but completed a way of doing things. That is why there are no more sacrifices or priests or anything like that. Christ was the final sacrifice and we are all deemed as priests because of Him. Therefore it makes complete sense that worship is a constant thing. Before Christ completed it all (through His death and resurrection) there were designated places of worship (“sacred spaces”) and designated times to worship (“sacred times”), but now, those are not necessary, in fact, they are unbiblical. It would not be right to only worship on the Sabbath or only worship in the Temple. It is commanded that worship be always on our hearts and that our only joy be found in God and His prescence.

I know this sounds like a really cheese-filled question to ask and it sounds like I’m just writing it for the sake of writing it but I’m really only 95% convinced of this so here it goes: do you think this is right?

pendulum swings

I don’t guess I have much background experience with the free church outside of Southern Baptist services, but it seems like the free church was a pendulum swing from the Church of England and catholicism, and it probably was a good swing at the time.  However, when it swings to watered down gatherings that offend no one, surely God is most offended.  Why are humans so prone to swing from one extreme to another.  I found it interesting on page 151, para 3 that Hughes commented that “Many who have grown up in the desolate worship of evangelical churches have an unrequited need to worship, and as young adults they leave for traditions that have a reverant form of worship, even where the reality has long departed.”  Can the opposite not be said as well, that many who have grown up in the dry, emotionless liturgical church have an unrequited need for worship, and they leave for churches that move them emotionally, even when the emotion may be manipulated into being?  (I can’t remember our better word for manipulated)  How does your ideal church service lead the congregation to a place of authentic, reverent, meaningful worship?

Mob Mentality

Earlier in class we discussed the purpose of church gatherings – whether worship was primarily in focus or edification.  Carson’s point was that edification was the primary goal, though worship played a supporting role in that.  R. Kent Hughes continues this discussion for us and adds some helpful insights concerning the relationship between corporate worship and edification.

Hughes claims that “the togetherness of corporate worship aids edification” (p. 141, par. 4).  He follows this claim with a quote that gives examples of “mob mentality” producing something more intense than any individual would produce.  The intense cruelty of a mob and the hightened enjoyment of symphony goers are the two examples used.  We have all experienced this.  We often hear people say, perhaps about a favorite movie, that “you have to watch it with the right person.”  While I enjoy The Princess Bride, I would much prefer to see it with someone who understands and shares my delight in satiric comedy than I would want to see it on my own.

This phenomenon of human behavior certainly seems appropriate to apply to corporate worship, as Hughes does.  I will give an example from my life in which the assembled body ministered to my family in a way that edified us and them.  Before Diana gave birth to our second child, Jesse Daniel, or church presented us a gift after the worship service.  Many people had collaborated to prepare the gift, and as such it was of more value than any one member probably would have given.  Their generosity was also publicy displayed and received, enabling the congregation to rejoice with us at the work of God among us.  What are some examples from your lives in which you have seen the body do something greater than one person could do (resulting in edification)?

Word-Centered & Passionate Worship

So the reading this week was interesting.  Before I start my post I was wondering if anyone knew what ‘Free Church’ is exactly.  I was a little confused to what it is.

There are actually two things that I would like to bring up from the reading.  First, when Hughes was talking about the six distinctives of worship I started to think more on his third distinctive – Word-Centered Worship.  At first when I was reading this distinctive I was thinking of Word-Centered Worship in the context of our churches today.  However, aren’t we supposed to be thinking outside of Sunday church?  What about people who don’t have Bibles?  Can they not offer up the same worship that we offer up to God because they are limited on material?  That seems pretty unfair!  I mean if you think about it the tangible Bible hasn’t always existed.  The people in the Old Testament kind of had to be born before God inspired them to write what they wrote.  Therefore is Word-Centeredness a key part of our concept of worship?

The other thing I was thinking about through my reading was Hughes’ idea of passion in worship.  I do agree that worship should be passionate.  I just don’t know if its in the same way that Hughes thinks of it.  The example that Hughes gives about being passionate was in Mark 14:8, when Mary was anointing Jesus with perfume and wiping His feet with her hair; a very passionate expression of worship.  On the other hand I began to think of how a lot of times when I worship (through music) I like to just stand or even sit during worship (through music) and listen to the song and what it’s saying.  If someone were to look at me outwardly they could never have guessed I was worshiping passioantely.  I was also thinking about when Jesus went to Mary and Martha’s house.  When Mary just sat at Jesus’ feet could this be considered passionate worship?  Sitting and listening? (Luke 10) Hughes said: “But when worshiping, both the effusive and the reserved must be passionately involved.” (p.162 paragraph 2 line 7, 8)  I guess my question here is: Does ‘passionate worship’ have to be something that is only outwardly expressed?

Carson

From p.59 of Carson: “What is at stake is authenticity . . . We long to meet, corporately, with the living and majestic God and to offer him the praise that is his due.”  This rings so true in my soul.  I love participating in corporate worship at CIU because I sense deeply that I am part of a movement and work of God that is bigger than myself, and I see and hear evidence all around me that my fellow students are overwhelmed with gratitude for who God is and what He has given them.  There is a wonderful spirit of joy.  This authenticity is something that I crave as a creature of God, and I feel that that craving is satisfied.  What I love about the word “authenticity” is that it gets rid of mindless traditionalism and mindless sentimentalism at the same time.  These leaves room for worship that is filled with real emotion and real connection with our history and artistic side which are rooted in a real relationship with God (even if He seems distant).  This all leads up to my question–what is one way at CIU that we are hindering authenticity in corporate worship?

A Performance

I want to start this post with gratitude towards Carson from when he talked about worship vs. corporate worship (pg. 49; whole paragraph).  I know that this was more so a side note in why he’s referring to what he’s specifically referring to as ‘corporate worship’, but for me it gave me permission to see worship as a BIG concept but allowed me to see that I don’t need to find a way to take this concept and confine it into a Sunday morning service.  Since we began talking about the concept of worship in this class it has affected me greatly!  I have started to question more and more what worship is exactly (which is not bad) and started to apply it to my life now and started asking “what if I’m not doing ‘worship’ right?”  I know there is no correct and incorrect way of worshiping God.   However, by discussing this in class I have unknowingly put that correct and incorrect concept in my head; both in leading people into worship as well as worshipping on my own.  So I just wanted to say that to start off.

The idea of ‘performance’ stuck in my head.  Not only because of some of the reading in Carson but also in my Medieval Philosophy class.  I am reading St. Augustine Confessions and one of the things that Augustine admits to is how a lot of times he sins just by being involved in worship (through music) and listening to the singer rather than listening to what’s being sung (Augustine.  The Confessions of Saint Augustine.Translated by John K. Ryan.  New York: Doubleday, 1960. [10.33.50]).  This hit me hard when I was reading because I started to wonder as a person who leads corporate worship (through music) if by me singing or having someone else sing that add little accents musically seeming  performance based, I could be causing a distraction and bringing attention to myself; causing others to sin.  Originally I wasn’t going to bring this up in this post because I had already gotten assurance from two reliable people that this wasn’t the case.  However, I have not been able to get this out of my head.  You see I was reading for Worship Class and Carson brought up the concept of performance.  Not technically with the same idea but just the concept of ‘performance’ during corporate worship (pg. 53 paragraph d).  However, later Carson talks about the person leading worship (through music) transparently (p. 59; paragraph 1,2).

I don’t want to be one to cause others to sin when it comes to worshiping God, but at the same time I want to be able to worship God transparently.  If I’m leading worship and confining my worship then I’m no longer worshiping God with my whole heart, soul and mind.  Another thing I want to throw out with this is that through History of Western Music we learned about chants and how when people in the past did worship (through music) it wasn’t always congregationally sung.  There were times when there would be chants going on in which the congregation was not verbally a part of.  Does this mean that ’special songs’ are an ok thing to have on Sunday morning?  The problem would be whether or not the person would be worshiping through thtat song transparently.  If not it is then a performance song rather than an act of worship.

My question here is: how exactly are ’special songs’ that aren’t sung withthe congregation affective and good for a corporate worship setting?

Also, can the way we lead worhsip negatively affect the congregation who are being led into worhsip through music when we’re using accents musically and verbally in the worship?

Imitators and Examples

The last point Carson made in his Practical Conclusions was refreshing to me.  He recounted communication between himself and an elder on how to make his teaching on Romans 12:1-2 understandable to children.  It was Carson’s response to this that was so interesting.  To summarize, he responded that the best way to communicate the truth of living a life of worship to children was to live it out and identify it for them.  This reminded me of Paul’s words to the Thessalonians,

“…you know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake.  You also became imitators of us and of the Lord, having received the word in much tribulation with the joy of the Holy Spirit, so that you became an example to all the believers in Macedonia and in Achaia (I Thess. 1:5-7).”

We can learn both from Carson and from the apostles’ ministry in Thessalonica.  While expository teaching is important, it is through practical application that people see the truth working.  The apostles in Thessalonica proved what kind of men they were, the Thessalonians imitated that example, and then the Thessalonians became an example to others.  Let me apply this to myself.  While I ought to teach my daughter God’s word, I must also live it out for her to see.  So far this is somewhat general, so,

What are some specific examples of behavior that you have seen in a leader’s life that you want to imitate?

Every tribe and tongue

Among the many highlighted lines in my book this week, I would like to discuss two.  On page 52, second paragraph, Carson says “New Testament does not provide us with officially sanctioned public “services” so much as with examples of crucial elements.”  Then on page 60, paragraph one, he asks if there is a need for Christians from different backgrounds to come together in worship, through various biblically rooted mediums.  How great would it be if we planned our times of corporate worship to touch people where they are comfortable, stretch us where we need growth or conviction, expand us to appreciate forms of worship we are not familiar with, all of which is rooted in the Word.   Perhaps it’s because I am in this middle group between boomers and whatever today’s generation is called – someone let me know – that my heart cries out for balance.  When people close off to what they don’t understand, before making an attempt to understand it, I get really frustrated.  There is no “one right way” because God didn’t create us identically.  He must love variety in our corporate worship in the same way He loves creating a million kinds of bugs.  I wish people could trust variety, and the uncomfortableness of trying something new.   

How can we use the framework of traditional liturgy, prayers, creeds and songs and have the freedom to express them in our own time and culture?  What are some ways a church could try to incorporate “new traditionalism”?

hmm….Maybe…..how do we know…..what do we do!

So I like reading Carson again this week. A few things that he said stuck to me. p 31 says that “We become like whoever we worship.” So if we worship God we become more like God. Ok?  I’m not sure if that was worded correctly because if I worship money will I become more like money?:) I’m just be sarcastic I know what he means. That being said though if it is true that if we worship God we become more like him, because we are growing deeper in him then does that mean that our styles of worship will change the more intimate we become with God in worship. If that’s true than could that answer our question when it comes to the issue of traditional and contemporary. Maybe contemporary is a result of a deeper intimacy in worship with Christ? Also I got to thinking about when Carson said. “If you wish to deepen the worship of the people of God, above all deepen their grasp of his ineffable majesty in his person and in all his works.” When I read that I thought well how do you do that? If people don’t know that their way of worship isn’t as deep as it could be, or I they don’t realize that their motives of worship are wrong.  So I guess my next question is how do we go about deepening the churches grasp of God’s ineffable majesty… especially we don’t know what worship is ourselves?? I hope that made sense to you guys.